Ron Stauffer on the Arizona Business Podcast

Welcome to the number one business podcast for Arizona business owners. Whether you're hiking the trails of Sedona stuck in Phoenix traffic, or lost in the Pine Forest of Flagstaff, we are here to inspire and motivate you in your business goals. Use your host, Jared. What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Arizona Business Podcast. My name is Jared Orr and I am on a mission to interview the best and brightest entrepreneurs in the great state of Arizona. And today I have got a friend down in Tucson. I think this is the first time I've interviewed an Arizona entrepreneur that's not in the Phoenix area, so that's exciting. But I got my friend Ron, who is the founder of Lieder Digital, a digital marketing agency down in Tucson, where he mainly specializes in website development.

So we do talk about that. We also talk about a very interesting story of his, and that is how a call he made to, I should say this, a panicked phone call he made about 20 years ago to a real estate agent he barely knew, launched his business without him even knowing. So it's amazing how one connection can completely transform your life, and that's obviously why I. Gave this episode the title that I gave it because one connection allowed him to launch his business that he's had for a long time now. He is been very successful with. So as you're listening to this, think about connections you've made. I don't care if it was this year, a year ago, or 20 years ago, like in Ron's case, but think about people that you may wanna reach out to and see what's going on in their life.

You never know where certain conversations will go. I've got a pretty big network of truly exceptional people and. I've had pretty cool opportunities open up to me because I've reached out to people or I've chosen to rekindle a connection, whatever it is. My wife and I, we met when we were 15 years old and we kept in contact over the years through social media and stuff, but I reached out to her when we were 21 to get together 'cause I was gonna be in the area. I knew she was in an area I was gonna be there. And now we've been married for over an al almost nine years. So. Just saying it's amazing what one connection can make and no matter can do for you, no matter how long ago it was when you made that connection. So that is food for thought. But I will get right into the episode with Ron. It's a great episode, great value. So I hope you enjoy and have a great week,

Mr. Ron. It is great to have you on the show, my friend. How are you doing today? Good. Good to see you, Jared. Uh, likewise, man. You, you and I are not too far away. I, we were just talking about you're down in Tucson and I'm in Queen Creek, so about two, two hours away from each other. I've been in Tucson once, and that was for a u of A game. Okay. And it was a cool experience. I remember sitting in the stands and like hearing them say, bear down, but I'm like, but they're the Wildcats. So I'm like, so I was sitting next to a U of a fan. I'm like, okay, what's the deal? What are you guys? Yeah. And she's, we. Apparently bear down was a phrase that was said by one of their legendary players. So they just ran with it or something? I don't know. Yeah, it was like something he said on his deathbed. He said, tell them to bear down. That's right. That's, and so they do something like fist or horn fists or, I don't know.

I didn't go to U of A, so I don't know the full story. Okay. Got it. Okay. I just thought it was interesting. I'm like, okay. That's pretty cool though. But no, it's good to have you on man I wanna start right off the gate, right out right outta the gate with something that you said to me via email when we were getting this whole thing scheduled and you're like, I got this great topic to talk about and so I'm just gonna read it right here. But it is how one panicked phone call you made 20 years ago to a real estate agent that you barely knew launched your business without you even knowing. Absolutely. That's a stacked statement right there. So take us to that moment. What was that like? Yeah, so when you first reached out, I started thinking like, okay, what's something interesting about me and the business that I run that maybe hasn't been heard before?

'cause my name's Ron. I do websites, I do digital marketing. Okay, blah, blah, blah, right? There are a lot of people, aside from my name and my company name, Lieder Digital, which you know, we were talking about a second ago. It's a little bit different, but aside from that. How different can one web design agency be? So I just thought actually the start of my company was a bizarre circumstance. So just like you said, you queued it up there. It was over 19 years ago, almost 20 years now, I was working for a construction company. I was the marketing director, and I don't know if you remember almost 20 years ago, but 2006, 2007 2008 2009 was about the worst time in many decades to be in construction or home building or anything related to real estate. And so we had a company meeting. We saw the signs, the market's doing this. It's bad.

It's probably gonna get worse. It's not gonna get better. We're thinking, okay, do we need layoffs? Do we need to start firing people? Um, maybe we need to start selling better. Do we need to go hire a full-time salesman? 'cause we were a real small company and mostly had worked on referrals. So we had this brainstorming. Meeting and I'm just thinking, okay, whatever. This is bad. And the company owner panicked and he was really panicked and he said, okay, everybody in this room, pull out your phone right now. Look at all the people in your contacts list and today, start calling every single person. Okay, for what? And he said, I dunno, just get conversations started. Just ask them, do you know anybody who needs a home built? Do you know any real estate agents who are willing to refer people our way? Yeah. So I open up my phone and I just start at the very top and at alphabetical order a. Adam so and so, or maybe

it was alphabetical by last name. I think so someone, Adams or something like that. I'm just calling people like, hi, was this in an iPhone or was it like a flip phone because it was an iPhone? Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm an early adopter of the iPhone, so I'm looking at this list of names and I'm just thinking, okay, so if I start calling every single person in my phone book, this is gonna get weird because I don't know everybody in my. Contacts list, right? Like, uh, probably some of these people I've met at events, I saved the, their contact info and then I thought I'll follow up with them someday. But some of the names I don't even recognize. I get down to the B's and there's a guy in there, Ray Brown. Okay. Ray Brown. Let's see. I remember Ray Brown. Oh, he's a real estate agent. Okay, cool. Perfect. This is gonna be a great opportunity. We're a construction company. He's a real estate agent, so I call Ray Brown. I had met him at a credit union first time

home buyer seminar like two years earlier. So I, I went and I thought, 'cause I had just recently gotten married and I thought I'm gonna learn about buying a house. And that's where I met Ray Brown, the real estate agent. And he said, when you're ready to buy a home, call me. I didn't because I wasn't ready to buy a home yet. So I call Ray Brown, he says, Hey Ron, good to hear from You You ready to buy a home? I said, no, actually. Different kind of call. We're bankrupt, essentially, like we're about to go outta business, everybody. We're gonna get laid off, we're gonna go have to go look for jobs unless I can start. Bringing in some new leads or sales or something like that. Do you know anybody who wants to build a home? And he said, not really. It's a pretty bad market, but I have an idea for you. Why don't you come with me to BNI and I'll introduce you to a bunch of people.

And I thought BNI, what's A BNI? And he said, it's this thing called Business Network International. And we get together every Thursday morning at 6:45 AM and you can meet a whole bunch of people there and tell them what you do. And I thought, okay, that's Not exactly what I was hoping for. Definitely more of a longer term answer, but why not? Sure. I'd never been to a business networking event. I didn't really even know what networking was at first. Literally. I'm not joking at first when he said networking, I thought he meant like computer networking, like putting computer chips and ethernet cables together. Yeah. And he said No, it's a business networking event. So we get together, we drink coffee, we shake hands, we learn about each other's business. And I thought, okay, alright, I'll try that. So I show up. A week later and he introduces me to a bunch of people and they say, Hey, nice to meet you.

No, we don't know anybody who needs a home built, so we can't help you there, but why don't you join BNI? And I was like, whoa. Okay. So that escalated quickly. So I went from this guy that I barely know who happens to be a real estate agent, who I called out of the blue and he said, come to my BNI meeting on Thursday. And I did. And then they said, why don't you join? And I thought this, I'm not really sure what to do because now instead of getting money by selling something, now they're asking me for money. But I took the application back to the office, I talked to the guys, and I said, this looks like a pretty good opportunity. It's a couple hundred bucks, but every Thursday I can meet with a whole bunch of people in this room and in this scenario where you can broadcast who you are, what you do, and the kind of business you're looking for.

Yep. And they said, yeah, okay. Is there anybody in the group like who, who needs a home built? And I said, no, I don't think so. But I, as I'm learning, that's not really the point. The point is you meet with people in your BNI meeting and then they go out and in their networks. They can think of people to refer your way. So it's all about, it's not about who's in the room, it's about who do they know outside. And there's this whole pitch and sales pitch and spiel that BNI gives, which is networks of separation and and three degrees and two degrees, and first tier referral, second tier referral, third tier referral. But the point is, you as one person can go into a room and talk to 15, 20, 25 people. But the network that every single one of those people is magnified

to an exponential point where you're like, you're thinking, I'm just talking to 15 people. But really what you're doing is you're talking to 15 people who will then keep you in mind in their network, multiply 15 times. I don't now I've been to a BNI before. Yeah. And I'm not part of A BNI right now, but I'm part of networking group that's very similar. We refer each other, we refer people to each other, things like that. Yeah, I totally, I get what you're saying. But that was all so foreign to me because I had never done sales before. I had never, yep. Like I, I think I even had to get business cards printed up because it wasn't my job or role to go actively solicit business. So I got some business cards and 'cause marketing and sales are not exactly the same thing. So I wasn't a salesman, but I thought the best way to market our business. Is to go meet with people who do this for a living or who not for a living,

but who do this as part of their process. Right? They understand that if I stand up and say I'm looking for somebody who wants. a $500,000 to $800,000 house in the El Paso County area or something like that. Then you know when the idea is that the lady in the group who's standing next to me, who's a florist, if she has a friend that she meets at the hairdresser and she overhears, we're thinking about building a custom home. Ding, ding, ding, right now, all of a sudden, top of mind awareness, she refers them to me. We get a half a million to a million dollar home. Everybody's happy. Here's the ironic part, so the company paid for my membership and I joined. For the purpose of getting leads for this construction company. Oh, I see. Okay. So that was the whole point, which was like I was picking up the phone

to call people I know to see who we could meet and learn how I could get new business to come in for our construction company to build homes. It didn't work and I never got a single referral for a new home the entire time. But what happened is I got laid off after. I joined the, as a member. Okay. I got a free year of membership. So the timing was really bad in a sense that it was too far gone and it was too late. And by the time we, we were making these panicked calls, it was like, we're 99% of the way there. It just, the writing was on the wall. So it was really a last ditch effort. But what it did for me is, okay, now I'm a member of a networking group. I'm not selling houses anymore. I can use this for me. And they said, yeah, sure, absolutely. Just here's the application

to rebrand or change your category or something like that. And you're all paid up for at that point. I think I had been a member for three months or six months or something like that, and they said, yeah, you're a member, so just keep coming back. And I was like, great. Okay. Awesome. So I started my own business because the problem is when you work in an industry like construction. When you get laid off from one company, you can't just go find another company in the same industry and say, Hey, I have all this construction experience. Because they'll be like, dude, we're not hiring either. We're also firing people. Yep. Yeah, so it's kinda like with the tech layoffs that are happening these days, it's if you get laid off at Facebook, it's not so simple that you just say, okay, I'll go get a job at Microsoft, because they're also doing layoffs. I was unemployed for nine months in because I'm in tech, so I know exactly how that, goes So you know what I'm. saying So it's not like I could, so

I was, I got laid off right around Thanksgiving and I thought, okay, this could be a very long, depressing, complicated, frustrating experience of spending months looking for jobs for people who are probably not hiring. Or I can take my skillset that I have, that I used for this company and start my own business and then see if I can get clients that way. So that's what I did. And so I just, I rebranded and in that BNI group I said, Hey, my name's Ron Stauffer and I build websites. And they were, at first it was a little bit weird, they were like, wait a minute, you're the home builder guy. And I was like, Nope, not anymore. Now I build websites, I don't build houses. And they had to chuckle at that. And it worked. It worked really well. And what I got out of that was I learned how to walk into a room full of strangers and say, my name is Ron.

I build websites and stick out my hand and shake. Hands of people that I'd never met before and turn that into business relationships. And the funny thing is, I actually bought a house during that process. When I was a member of the BNI chapter, and so when you give, you stand up and you give referrals. For those who don't know in BNI and I give BNI huge credit for launching my career, really the way that I learned to speak publicly, enunciate properly. Stand up and stand up in front of a room full of strangers and have the confidence to say they're gonna want to hear from me. And no, I'm not wasting their time. And no, I don't need to rush everything from the clock. and The timing, you have 60 seconds and they give you training and stuff like that. But anyway, there's this referral

period during every meeting where you pass out referrals. And I bought a house and when it was all said and done, I ended up hiring Ray Brown, the realtor who had introduced me to that BNI chapter in the first place that I ended up joining. So I had a referral for Ray Brown, the realtor, but then, and I made a list here right before we got on this call. I passed 17 referrals. It was the craziest thing because through the process of buying a home, inspecting the home, taking ownership of the home, and then improving the home, I gave referrals to a realtor, a roofer, a handyman, a flooring guy, a chimney sweep, an arborist, the title company, the mortgage lender, An HVAC company, a plumber, the home inspector, a concrete company, a landscaper, a painter, and an electrician, and I'm sure I'm keeping someone out.

I was like royalty in that group. They were like, this is what BNI is all about. Yes, exactly. Yes. I just was the craziest thing where it was like when I bought a house, which I had never done before, hence my going to the first time home buyer seminar. I didn't know how to buy a house. I didn't know the home inspection process. And you, you get your checklist and then you negotiate back and forth and then you request repairs. And then they say yes to these, no, to these. I didn't know where to find an HVAC guy and a plumber and a landscaper and a painter, but they were all there in my B and i group. So it was just the most miraculous form of here's an opportunity for me, not only to gain business, but also to give business back. And as BNI likes to say, givers gain. Yeah. It was a great opportunity for me to

see not only how to ask for a referral, but also how to give a referral and then how people will remember that and they'll think, Hey, I like this guy Ron because he sent me a referral and now I'm gonna send him a referral. And so hence givers gain Right? I, I think that is a, a perfect description of how the best type of relationships work in our modern world right now. Some people may not like the sound of this, but it really is a reality that. Your relationships are only as effective as the value that you bring to them. Now, that doesn't mean that you need to be like that value doesn't have to come in like money or things like that. But let's say you and I are like really good. We've been friends for a long time, right? You and I, and you're constantly reaching

out to me, inviting me out to stuff. You're checking in on me, but I'm not doing the same to you. I'm not. Providing the value that you're bringing, like eventually that's going to divide us. That's happened to me with a lot of relationships, a lot of friendships over the years, especially as I've gotten older. There's just it. I don't know. I'm trying to make this not sound like a capitalistic type analogy of that you have to bring value for you to be a good person. I'm not saying that. Sure. Just what you just said though is when you were bringing business to these other business owners that built up your reputation with them, that made them like you more, so they were more willing to refer to you when they needed websites or marketing work. And I see that in, in the bus, in the business networks that I'm in. So I write for a local magazine.

I've already featured three or four people in my networking group in that magazine, and that's amazing exposure. Yeah. And I've done business with all those people as well, because through that referral, through that, you know, feature me, featuring them that built our relationship and now they trust me more and want to do more business with me because I gave them opportunities to grow their business. Totally. And the other thing too is just keeping people in mind, right? Like when you talk about top, they say top of mind awareness or that sort of thing. That's really a big deal. Yeah. So for me, I don't do graphic design. I don't like graphic design. I don't do it. I don't do logos. I don't do anything with print. I hate it. It's not my thing. But I know people who do, and so I'm constantly listening for when I have clients that build websites and

things like that, I ask questions that are not necessarily related to me. I say, do you have a fleet of vehicles? Do you have truck wraps? Do you have job site signage? Do you have decals for your, uh, storefront and that sort of thing? If they say no, I say, great. I know exactly who you should work with. And a lot of those relationships that I developed in BNI still, I'm still working with those people today. There's a graphic designer that I sent a referral to last week, and I've been working with him on and off for at least 15 years. And I'm going into meetings with potential clients, not just thinking about me and what can I get out of it, but also how can I help this client with things that I don't do, but I know people who can. Direct mail is another great example.

I don't do direct mail, but I know a great guy who does direct mail and he and I have partnered multiple times where if I say to a client, Hey, would you like to do, or sometimes they'll say, we're thinking about doing like postcards or mailers to this right zip code or something like that. What I do is I can build them a landing page with a particular, a unique URL and or a QR code and even a tracking phone number so that when those postcards go out. Because I'm collaborating with this other guy who does direct mail for a living. We can stagger their mailings such that if we mail this zip code first, we wait and see the results. And then we do another one over here and then another one over here and another one over here. And at the end of the campaign or what be that weeks or months, we can look back and say, which one of those

mailings got you the best results? That happens because I know the direct mail guy and he and I partner and we talk and collaborate and think, and we've optimized a way of doing that. That has nothing to do with me. I don't do the direct mail at all. I don't print it. I don't go down to the post office. I don't, I don't even really look at the lists. That's not really my thing. But by being a digital marketing guy, I can come alongside and help. Augment what they're doing. And so that's the concept that I've used throughout ever since that, that very first business networking meeting. It's like I'm always thinking, who else is in my network that can help this person, but also vice versa? Who else, again, who else is not in the room? But who knows? The people who are in the room who now know me. And so that's a beautiful thing. And here I am again almost 20 years

later, and the power of learning how to. Just show up and say, here's who I am and what I do, and I don't know you and you don't know me, but at the end of this meeting, we're gonna know each other and like each other, and we're gonna listen to see if we can refer business back and forth. I still do that to this day, and I learned all that because. We had a panicked company meeting and it was like, oh, because of one friend call. Red alert. Red alert, everybody. Just call everyone you know. And most of those phone calls went completely unheated. I called a bunch of people and they were like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Sorry, I can't help you, man. But it was that one guy who was the real estate agent. Yeah. Who said, I can't help you, but come meet my friends. But if you think about it, yeah, that's really where it started. It started with the connection you made with this real estate agent at this conference. Then, and the fact that he even,

he, how long was it between the conference and you and your phone call? Was it a year, less than a year? Uh, the first time home buyer seminar. Yeah. It was long enough that it was awkward when I called him. Okay. Because first, but he remembered you when you called him. He thought, Hey, what's up Ron? Ready to buy a house? Yes. That's amazing. So it, it was long enough that it was awkward to where. First I, because I showed up at the first time home buyer seminar, he assumed, oh, Ron wants to buy a house. And I told him like, maybe we will see. Not yet. So it must have been, I don't know, two I at least a year, maybe two years later. So he sees my caller ID and he's thinking, yes, he's ready to buy. And I was like, whoa, hold on. Not yet. Different question. He may have had you in his phone as like Ron, first time home buyer seminar. Wants to buy a house.

Yeah, right. Answer now. Something like, I don't know. But anyway, the fact that he like remembered you and took the time to bring you to this bni, that's incredible. Like clearly this guy is seasoned in his field and loves what he does, that he wants to just help you in any way. That's amazing. But that's what you've talked about is what I believe the secret to, not just business success. Success in life surrounding yourself with people who are good at things that you aren't good at, or just know things that you don't know. Mm-hmm. Like having these different perspectives, these different skill sets in our life can only bring value to to who we are as a person and the value that we bring to the world. 'cause it just adds to who we are. As a business owner? As an individual, I think, yeah, I think what BNI doesn't, and for those that are

listening that don't really know what BNI is or might be interested in it, I'm gonna link their website down below. They really do amazing things. I'm also part of another networking group called Arizona Entrepreneurs, and that's like A BNI, but it's for the entire state of Arizona. So I'll link them as well because they're definitely worth looking into. I think anyone, whether you're a business owner or not, but especially if you're a business owner, would absolutely benefit from joining a local networking group, be it BNI, be it just like a Chamber of Commerce, like whatever it is, obviously. 'cause yes, it can eventually bring you business, but it allows you to connect with people who, who can teach you things, who can bring value to your life. So if anything, if you're a business owner, go on Google.

Type in local entrepreneurship groups. B and I might be one of the first options, but just put yourself out there and that, that would be my advice to any business owner. Would you say the same or would you say something different? Oh, a hundred percent. The success of my business has been networking, absolutely. From day one. Yeah, and it was weird to see because I'm not a very social guy. I'm actually pretty introverted and I really don't like drawing attention to myself. But my wife, she was the one who first noticed, she said, you are really a different person now than when you first started your company. I don't remember. It was very complimentary. I can't remember the exact word she used, but she said, you just exude confidence now and you know how to just walk into a room and make friends, and you didn't have that before. And that I was very pleased to hear that, but it's absolutely true.

I credit BNI, but. BNI likes to say they have the secret sauce and they have a way of doing things, and that's true and that's good and fine. I'm not a member of BNI, I haven't been for a long time, but I'm still a member of my local Chamber of Commerce. And the first thing I do whenever I move to a new place is join the Chamber of Commerce. So yes, for example, I moved to Tucson I think three or four years ago from Colorado. Very first thing I did. I got this office here. Right after that I joined the Chamber of Commerce, and there's a couple reasons for that. Number one, it's like the BNI model where it's, they have networking events and that sort of thing, and that's good and wonderful, and I do those and I go to those. But it's also just if you wanna shortcut the process of how do I get to know how Tucson works? How Arizona works 'cause

things are different here. Right? There's some pretty strange differences coming from Colorado to Arizona. Like we, I have multiple representatives in the same legislative district. That is a very weird quirk where you vote for more than one person to represent you in the state. I've never lived in a state that does that before, so I actually have two representatives who represent me in my same state district. Okay. Wow. That's a little bit different. Arizona didn't have a lieutenant Governor still doesn't. Okay, that's a little bit different, right? So there's these little quirks, whether it's politically or business wise. We have the Arizona, what's it called? The Corporation Commission. We didn't have that in Colorado, so that's new and different. And Register of Charities and Register of Business Licensing and things like that. The things that I should know about as a business here in Arizona, I

could learn that slowly over time, or I could just join a Chamber of Commerce and say, Hey, I'm new here. What should I do? And they say, boy, we're glad you asked. We have a whole packet for you. We have a system. Who do you wanna know? Do you wanna meet your local elected representative? You wanna talk to local financial partners? Do you need a bank? I started over, when I moved here, I had to get a new bank because I was a member of a credit union in Colorado. Okay. I couldn't really do that here anymore 'cause they didn't have branches. What's the best bank for me to join in Tucson? Well, it depends on where you live and work, so let's have a conversation about that. So I have absolutely looked at. My network in a much bigger way than just, how can I get leads from this group? I've looked at them as, bad example, but my house flooded. Let's say, who's the best disaster

restoration company in town? Or who have you worked with before? That's an extreme example. That didn't happen to me, but if it did, that would be the first place I would go. I would ping my network at the chamber and say, Hey guys, I got an emergency here. What do I do? And I'll give you a quick example of one thing that did happen. I had a client. Who lives in another state and was driving through Arizona and he wasn't a client yet. He was a prospective client, and the project we were talking about was very big. Lots of dollars attached to it. One of the biggest. He said, Hey, I'm on a road trip. I'm driving to California. I'm gonna be in Tucson on Saturday. You wanna meet up in person? And I said, yes, of course. So here's my opportunity to meet with a potential client that I've never met before. I've only talked to him on the phone. We're talking big money, big dollars,

big projects, long time partnership. What restaurant should I recommend? He asked me, what restaurant would you recommend? And I, where should we meet? And I'm thinking like, wow, okay. First impressions are an important deal. I haven't met this guy before. I wanna make a good impression. I Applebee's like, where do you go? I don't know. So I, I sent a message on Slack to my group at the Chamber and they said. For that kind of client, Fleming Steakhouse. Cool. But there you go. I've never heard of Fleming Steakhouse. I don't know anything. So I call ahead, I make a reservation, stuff like that. The guy shows up. We have a great meeting. We sit, we chat for about three hours, big dreams, hopes, fears, conversation, plans for the future. So he hires me and we had a long and prosperous relationship. We're still working together now.

And my friend who recommended Flemings, he said, it works, didn't it? And I said, what do you mean? He said, I'll bet you got the job. I said, I did. He said. Fleming. So I was like, wow, I've been the Plumbing. That's so cool. So I, networking for me is almost everything and printed out, I don't have it right here, but in the earliest days when I was building my network, as it were, not physically at a group like BNI, but just in my head, who are the people that I go to who are the experts in their field? And I printed out a table in, in Excel, and I called it my winning team. Ron's winning team. I had all these blanks and I thought, I need to fill all of these blanks. I need a good videographer. If I do websites, I need somebody who's really good with video.

I need somebody who understands radio advertising, who's a local radio advertising contact, who is a good graphic designer that does tri-fold brochures and small print pieces, who's a direct mail person. So I started with a bunch of blanks, and over the months and years I started filling in those names. Those people are now my winning team, and like I said, some of them are from that original spreadsheet I still work with today. So it's all about who is the winning team that I can bring to the table, whether I profit off of that or not, that that's been a big part of my success, which is knowing the right people and just doing right by the client and saying, I can't do that for you, but I know someone who can and it's somebody that I trust. So don't just Google some random stranger.

No, I have a track record with this guy. We've done work together in the past. Yeah. I'll tell you this, I Web design is not my forte. Like I'll write the website, but as far as like setting it up, the backend, the DNS settings, that's not my forte. So we may need to collaborate on that because that's clearly your forte and. You and I both understand the value of networking, so I think that's a good conversation to have. But speaking of that, we never really talked very much about your business. So what I'm gonna do, Ron, is I'm gonna link your website and I see all your socials here on your site, so I'll link those as well so people can learn more about you, learn about the sites that you build and reach out to you if they're looking for someone that can do just that. But this has really been an awesome conversation, and I'm glad that we talked so much about networking because I believe in the power of networking, and I don't think I've had an episode

up to this point where we've really. Hit on the subject of networking as well as this one. So I'm glad that we were able to do it. Would you have any last, because you're an introvert, right? So there's a lot of people self confessed I pretend not to be, but I am. Exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of people that get in their own way when it comes to networking and building connections because they're introverted. So one last piece of advice for anyone who might be in that category and they want to fi to start networking, but they're afraid to do, what advice would you have for them? That's a great question and I'd give it a two part answer. One of them is very silly. Just imagine Stuart Smalley from Saturday Night Live many years ago. Get in front of a mirror and tell yourself, I'm good enough. I'm smart enough, and doggone it.

People like me, you really do sometimes have to tell yourself, I deserve to be in this room. Yeah. The people that I'm about to meet actually do want to meet me. They really do. So that negative self-talk, you gotta overcome that negative self-talk. Sometimes I still, I give myself a pep talk before I walk in and I say, okay, I'm going to a networking event. That means that the people who are here came here to meet people like me. So we have the same goal in mind. So this is good, and I want to be here, and they want me to be here. So, overcoming the negative self-talk, giving yourself a, a pep rally. But then the second thing is give yourself a very small goal. If you walk into a room and there are 57 people you don't know, that

is tremendously overwhelming and very, it can be very frightening. Yeah. And you look and you think, what am I gonna do here? Oh my goodness. Even for an extrovert like me, it can be very overwhelming. Totally. Should I meet every single person and have a one minute conversation with all of them? No. No. So what I did in the very, very beginning, and I still stick to this every time I go anywhere, is I say I want three business cards. That's my goal, just. Three. If I get more, that's great. Good. I went to, I went to a networking event two days ago. I got eight business cards. Right. Oh, look at that. Yeah. That's just bonus. That's just gravy. But having a small, attainable goal. I'm not leaving until I have spoken to three people. That I can get their business card and say to myself, this

was a contact worth making. That would be, that's the best way to, to take what is potentially incredibly overwhelming and make it very small and doable. Because if you can make three contacts this week, three contacts next week, three contacts a week later, you've got 15, 20, 25, 30 contacts in just a couple weeks, that's a tremendously effective rate. So start small. And even keep it small. Like I said, almost 20 years later, I'm still only doing three I. That's just my goal. So give yourself a bite sized task where you say something else that I'll say is, I'm gonna stay here for one hour. Mm-hmm. If it's a three hour meeting or something like that. Yeah. I don't have to be there the entire time, but I'm gonna stay here for one hour and I'm gonna meet three people and then I'll walk away smiling saying,

I did what I accomplished. I accomplished what I. What I came here to do. This is why I was here. It was worth going to. That's what I would say. Start small, get three business cards and tell yourself, doggone it, people like you. And the nice thing about these networking events, I'll add my 2 cents, is that people go there to network. Just walking up to someone or walking up to a group of people and joining the conversation or starting a conversation. That's acceptable in, in those situations. Don't psych yourself out too much. You're not like at a bar and like trying to go meet someone. Like that's a little different. 'cause not everyone is there to meet someone. Whereas at these events, that's the mindset most people are in. Yeah, absolutely. It's not overly salesy to say, my name's Ron. I build websites. Exactly. Let's talk business, because that's the whole purpose of the event. Yeah. Or, Hey, can I join this conversation?

Like seriously, like I've done that. I've had people do that at these networking events to people I'm talking to. It's not a big deal. So yeah. Anyone who's listening, they'd be nervous about that. Just know if you're going to a networking event, 95% of the people there are totally cool with you. Just talking to them and approaching them, it's all good. Yeah. We're all here for the same reason I wanna build my business and I wanna help build yours. And everybody else in the room has that same thought. We're all here to win together. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Ron, thank you. Great conversation, man. Like I said, if you're interested in learning more about Ron and his business, everything is in the description, check him out. But Ron, thanks for everything. This has been a, this has been a great con. Absolutely. Thanks for listening. If you're an Arizona business owner and want to be featured on the podcast, click

the link in the show notes to apply. See you in the next episode.